Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman bin Abdulaziz sat down with US-based magazine The Atlantic for a lengthy interview, during which he spoke on a variety of topics.
In what was his first interview to a non-Saudi publication in two years, he made quite a few ripples with his views.
For example, he said Israel could be a “potential ally” of Saudi Arabia.
Here are some of the important things he said during the interview.
On change in Saudi Arabia
We’re not trying to be like Dubai or trying to be like America.
We are trying to evolve based on what we have, economic assets and utilizing the potential of the Saudi people, the culture of Saudi Arabia, our background, and we try to evolve this way.
We want to add something new to the world. A lot of our projects are unique. It’s Saudi Arabian.
So for example, if you look at Al-Ula, it’s uniquely Saudi. There is no other model like it.
If you look, for example, at the project in Dir’iyyah, which is one of the biggest cultural projects in the world, it’s unique. It is a Nejdi themed cultural heritage project.
If you look, for example, to the old town in Jeddah and the development around it, it’s based on Hijazi tradition. So that’s unique. That’s Saudi Arabia.
And if you look, for example, to Neom, and The Line, the main city in Neom, that’s unique, that’s created and made by Saudi Arabia.
It’s not a copy of anything elsewhere. It’s evolving and creating solutions that no one created before.
And if you look, for example, to Qiddiya Riyadh, one of the biggest entertainment/culture/sport projects in the world, with a size about 300 square kilometers, that’s bigger than the size of some small countries.
And you have huge projects of theme parks, cultural and sport elements, real estate, and all that have been synced in a way that it’s never been done in Orlando, for example, or anyplace in the world.
So we’re not copying, we’re trying to be innovative. We’re trying to use the capital that we have in PIF, the capital that we have in the government budget, in an innovative way, based on our culture or based on Saudi innovation.
On modernization
Every country in the world is founded on a set of views and beliefs.
For example, America is based on a foundation of views and beliefs: democracy, liberty, free economy, etc, etc, etc.
And the people are united based on that. but are all democracies good? Are all democracies functioning well? Definitely not.
Our country is founded on a set views and beliefs that are based on Islam, on tribal culture, Arab culture, and unique attributes to Saudi culture and beliefs.
That’s our soul. If we get rid of it, that means the country would collapse.
The question for us is, how can we put Saudi Arabia on the right path of development and modernization, not the wrong path?
The same question faces America: How can you put democracy, and free markets, and liberty, on the right path? Because it could go on the wrong path.
So we are not disparaging any of our beliefs, because that’s our soul.
The Holy Mosques are in Saudi Arabia and no one can remove it.
We have a responsibility towards the Holy Mosques forever and we want to put our country on the right path for the sake of our Saudi people, for the sake of the region, and for the sake of the whole world based on our belief in peace and coexistence and the need for us to add value to the rest of the world.
On ‘moderate Islam’
I would not use the term “moderate Islam,” because this term would make the extremists and terrorists happy. It’s good news for them if we use that term.
If we say “moderate Islam,” the suggestion is that we in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries are changing Islam into something new, which is not true.
We are going back to the real teachings of Islam, the way that the Prophet and the four Rightly Guided caliphs lived, which was open and peaceful societies.
They had Christians and Jews living under their rule. They taught us to respect all cultures, all religions, regardless.
These teachings of the Prophet and the four Caliphs, they were perfect. We are going back to the root, to the real thing.
What happened was that the extremists hijacked and changed our religion into something new for their own interests.
They’re trying to make people view Islam their way. And the problem was that there was no one arguing with them, and no one fighting against them seriously.
So they had the chance to spread all these extremist views, which led to the creation of the most extreme terrorist groups, both in the Sunni and Shiite worlds.
The Atlantic People in the religious establishment here said that that this extremism was largely the result of Muslim Brotherhood influence in the 1960s and the 1970s. But it also seems clear that there was a lot of Saudi influence, Saudi conservatism is a real thing.
On Islamic groups
The Muslim Brotherhood, the Ikhwan, played a huge role in creating all of this extremism. They were the bridge that took others to extremism.
When you talk to them, they will not seem to be extremists, but they lead you to extremism.
Osama bin Laden was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood; al-Zawahiri used to be a member of the Muslim Brotherhood; the leader of ISIS used to be a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.
So, the Brotherhood is a pathway. It has been a strong element in the creation of extremist groups in the past decades.
But it’s not all the Muslim Brotherhood. It’s a mix of many things and many events, not only from the Muslim world, even also from America.
For example, the invasion of Iraq, that gave a chance for extremists to propagate their massage and rally followers.
It is also true that some extremists in Saudi Arabia, not Muslim Brotherhood extremists, played a role in this area, especially after 1979 revolution in Iran, and the hijacking of the Holy Mosque in Mecca.
About Wahhabism, I would say that Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Wahhab is not a prophet, he is not an angel.
He was just a scholar like many other scholars in who lived during the first Saudi state, among many political leaders and military leaders.
The problem at that time in the Arabian Peninsula was that Ibn Abd al-Wahhab’s students were the only people who knew how to read and write and history was written from their perspective.
Ibn Abd al-Wahhab’s writing has been used by many extremists for their own agendas.
But I’m sure that if Ibn Abd al-Wahhab, Bin Baz, and others were alive today, they would be among the first people to fight these extremist ideas and these terrorist groups.
The thing is, ISIS doesn’t use as an example any living Saudi religious figures. When they die, they start to use their words and twist their views out of context
Ibn Abd al-Wahhab is not Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has Sunni and Shiite, and among Sunni, you have four schools, and Shiite have different schools, and all of them are represented in number of religious boards.
Today, no one can push one of the schools’ views to make it as the only way of seeing religion in Saudi Arabia.
Maybe that took place in some parts of our history due to the events that I told you about, especially in the 80s, and the 90s, and early 2000s.
But today, we are back on the right track, as I said. We are going back to the roots, back to pure Islam, to be sure that the soul of Saudi Arabia, based on Islam, our culture, whether tribal or urban, is serving the nation, serving the people, serving the region, serving the whole world, and is leading us to economic growth.
And that’s what happened in the past five years.
So today, I’m not saying we might do this. Maybe if we were having an interview in 2016, you would say I’m making assumptions, and that this is just the analysis of the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia.
But we did it. You see it now with your eyes in Saudi Arabia. Just come and check it out, and watch the videos of Saudi Arabia six or seven years ago.
We did a lot, and there are a few things still to do. And we are going to work to make them happen.
On governance
Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, based and founded on that model.
And I told you that beneath the monarchy there is a complex structure of tribal and urban monarchical system like tribal chiefs and urban leaders.
…I’m saying that I cannot change Saudi Arabia from a monarchy to another type of system, because it has been based on a monarchy for 300 years, and this complex monarchical structure, of thousand tribal and urban systems have been part of how people lived in the past and it is part of a Saudi Arabia today and its continuation as a monarchy.
Among the Saudi royal family, you have more than 5,000 royals from the House of Al Saud.
The members of the allegiance council among them chose me to protect the interest of the monarchy that runs this complex structure based on thousands of tribal and semi-tribal leaders.
Changing this system is like betraying the Al Saud, betraying these thousands of tribal leaders and semi-tribal leaders in Saudi Arabia.
But all of those leaders help make the changes in Saudi Arabia. So, I don’t think that they are the people who are slowing change. They are the ones who help me to do more.
On social change
In Islam, some things are forbidden for Muslims and God specified a punishment for it, and some other things God didn’t specify a punishment — that means the judgment is between people and God.
But if you are foreign, Islamic teachings cannot be applied to you.
So, if you are a foreign person who’s living or traveling in Saudi Arabia, you have all the right to do whatever you want, based on your beliefs, regardless of what they are as long as they are in line with the country’s laws.
That’s what happened in the Prophet’s time and the period of the four Rightly Guided caliphs.
They didn’t apply social rules to non-Muslims, regardless of whether they are citizens, or just traveling in their country.
On Islamic laws
In Islamic law, the head of the Islamic establishment is wali al-`amr, the ruler.
So, the final ruling is not for the mufti. The final fatwa is for the King.
So, the mufti and the Fatwa Board are like advisers to the King, to give him what they advise.
But in Islamic teachings, the ruler, has the final fatwa, has the bay’a. The final word is for the king of Saudi Arabia.
They know that they can argue — you have to argue, you have to explain yourself, you have to use evidence, based on Islamic jurisprudence, based in the Prophet’s time, based in the Caliph’s’ time, you have to look into the Koran.
You have to argue Hadith, until you make your point. And then you have to make sure the people are ready for it and believe in it. And then the King makes that decision.
But just if you use the power as a King and make the decision, without going through the whole process, this could create a shock in the street and shock to the people.
On the mutawatir of Hadith
That’s the main source of division in the Muslim world, between extremist and peaceful Muslims.
You have tens of thousands of hadith. And, you know, the massive majority are not proven and are being used by many people as the way to justify doing what they are doing.
For example, [Al] Qaida followers, ISIS followers, they are using Hadith which are very weak, not proven to be true Hadith, to propagate their ideology.
So, simply put: God and the Koran tell us to follow the Prophet’s teachings.
And at the Prophet’s time, people were writing down the Koran, and writing down the Prophet’s teachings, so the prophet ordered that his teachings not be written down to make sure that the main base remains the Koran, so when we go to the Prophet’s teaching, we have to be very careful.
And they are grouped in three categories.
First, what is called mutawatir. So that means, several people heard it from the Prophet, a few people heard from those few people, a few people heard [it] from th[os]e few people. And that has been documented.
Those are almost super strong, and we have to follow them. They are few in number around 100 hadith.
The second category is what we call the individual Hadith.
So, one person heard it from the Prophet and another person heard it from that person, all the way to the one who documented it.
Or a few people heard it from the Prophet, a few people heard it from the Prophet, and one person heard it from those few people.
So, if there is a one-person link in the lineage of the Hadith, we call it one-person hadith. So that one we call ahad.
And you should study whether it is true, whether it goes with the teachings of the Koran, if it goes with the teachings of mutawatir, and if it goes with the interest of the people. And based on that, you use it or not.
The third one was called khabar. Someone heard it from the Prophet, etc, etc, and among the links are some that are unknown.
Those are the tens of thousands of Hadith, and that you shouldn’t use at all, except in one case: if you have two options, and both of them are very good.
And you can use that khabar hadith in that case, provided that it is in the interest of the people.
So that’s what we are trying to identify and publish, to educate the Muslim world about how do you use Hadith.
And I believe that will make a huge difference.
It needs time. We are in the final stages. I think we can put it out and maybe two years from today.
It’s just the documenting hadith in the right way. Because people when they read different books, they do not have the mindset or the brain or the knowledge to look into the lineage of the hadith and differentiate between them We just put it simply: This is proven.
On penal reform
Well about the death penalty, we got rid of all of it, except for one category, and this one is written in the Koran, and we cannot do anything about it, even if we wished to do something, because it is clear teaching in the Koran.
If someone killed someone, another person, the family of that person has the right, after going to the court, to apply capital punishment, unless they forgive him.
Or if someone threatens the life of many people, that means he has to be punished by the death penalty.
That’s a teaching in the Koran. Regardless if I like it or not, I don’t have the power to change it.
On encouraging forgiveness
We are doing that. So if you have time, we can take you to all governorates, and if you go to the headquarters, there is a department just working on that issue.
And if there is a death penalty, it’s not carried out right away. It would be carried out after six months or even one year, to give time to the family of the victim to cool down, to stop and think.
And a high percentage of executions are canceled based on these kinds of settlements.
So we are doing our best in that area. But we are going to do more about that.
The flogging penalty — that’s being cancelled totally in Saudi Arabia. There’s nothing. It’s been canceled 100 percent.
The only issue that we’re working on you’re trying to close is to be sure that there is no penalty without a law. And we are working with that.
So there are a few penalties that are up to the discretion of the judge. And now we are trying to be sure that there is no penalty in Saudi Arabia without a law.
We’re talking about that and trying to stop that in the next two to three years.
On the Khashoggi accusations
Well, first of all, it’s painful to see any person being killed unrightfully.
So even if a person deserved the death penalty, they would still have to go through the legal system, and have the right to defend themselves, etc.
So what happened was painful. And we wish that it didn’t happen to a Saudi citizen, or to any person in the whole world.
That was a huge failure in the system. And we did our best to fix the system and to make sure that this doesn’t happen again.
We also took actions that any rightful government would take, by moving those people to investigation and taking them to court.
And then the court decided different punishments for those people, and they are serving these punishments.
And that’s what happened when Americans made mistakes in Iraq or Afghanistan or Guantanamo. You took the right steps, and we did too.
…We’ve been blamed. I understand the anger, especially among journalists. I respect their feelings.
But we also have feelings here, pain here. We feel that we are not treated fairly. I feel, myself, that human rights law wasn’t applied to me.
Article XI of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that any person is innocent until proven guilty.
I didn’t get that right. So how can you talk to me about human rights without treating me according to my Article XI human rights?
That doesn’t make sense. So it’s a painful feeling, to know that we’ve been treated this way.
But at the same time, we understand the feelings.
But the biggest question for me is this: That year, almost 70 journalists were killed, worldwide. Can you name them for me?
No? So, thank you very much. Is this really a feeling for a fellow journalist? Or is this a design against us, and against me?
If it’s really a feeling for a fellow journalist, give me the 70 names of the journalists that were killed that year.
On being put under a spotlight
…[T]here are a lot of people who want to be sure that our project, Saudi Arabia’s project today, Vision 2030, fails.
But they can’t touch it. It will never fail. No one on the whole world has the power to make it fail.
You can slow it say by 5 percent. That’s the maximum that you can do. But more than that — no one can do anything.
There are a few groups — I don’t want to point fingers — but anyone with good knowledge can make the link between groups in the West, and groups in the Middle East, who have interests in seeing us fail.
On US, Chinese interests in Saudi Arabia
Well, I’m not an American, so I don’t know if I have the right to talk about American interests or not.
But I believe that any country in the world has main pillars of interest: economic interests, and political and security interests.
So that’s the main foundation of the foreign policy of any country. How can I boost my economy? And how can I maintain my security? And how can I boost my economic and political ties, to be sure that my country is safe, and to be sure that my country is growing and having more access to investment and trade, etc.
So I believe that’s the interest of America, to do that.
Saudi Arabia is a G20 country. You can see our position five years ago, it was almost 20. Today, we are almost 17 among the G20 countries. And we are aiming to reach a place more advanced than 15 by 2030.
For example, in 2021 we aimed to have 5.9 percent GDP growth. We believe we reached 5.6 percent for 2021. And that’s definitely among the top fastest growing countries in the world.
Next year, the whole economy is going to grow by almost 7 percent. And Saudi [Arabia] is not a small country, it’s a G20 country growing fast.
So where is the potential in the world today? It’s in Saudi Arabia.
We have a long, historic relationship with the United States. For us in Saudi Arabia, our aim is to keep it and to strengthen it.
We have a political interest, we have economic interests, we have a security interest, we have defense interests, we have trade interests, we have a lot. It’s huge.
And we have a huge opportunity to boost all of these things. And there is also a big possibility it could be downgraded in many areas. If you ask Saudi Arabia, we want to boost it in all areas.
You don’t have the right to interfere in our internal affairs. That’s about us Saudis, and no one can do a thing about that.
If you believe that you have the right social views [and] values and if they are strong, then you’ll get a win without pressuring us.
Let me give you an example. We didn’t get rid of slavery 60-70 years ago because we had any pressure.
But we had good influences from foreign countries. Saudi people studied abroad, and American companies, European companies, different companies, came and worked in Saudi Arabia.
And their influence was strong. We realized that this is wrong and cannot go on and we changed over time and got rid of it
Pressure doesn’t work. Throughout history, it’s never worked with us. If you have the right idea, the right way of thinking, just keep doing it. People will follow if it’s the right thing. If it’s the wrong thing, then people are going to follow their own way of thinking. And you have to accept it.
So for example, in Saudi Arabia, we respect your culture in America, we respect your way of thinking, we respect everything in your country, because it’s up to you.
We wish that we would be treated the same. We disagree with many things that you believe in, but we respect it.
We don’t have the right to lecture you in America, regardless if we agree or disagree with you. The same goes the other way.
That said, I don’t think that we as Saudi Arabia have reached the social standard that we are aiming for.
Still, we are going for the areas that we think that we as Saudis are confident in, based in our culture, on our beliefs in Saudi Arabia.
…Saudi Arabia is one of the fastest-growing countries in the world. We have two of the 10 biggest global funds. We have the one of the largest global cash reserves.
Saudi Arabia has the ability to provide 12 percent of the world’s oil.
It is situated between three main straits; Suez, Hormoz, and Bab Al-Mandab.
It overlooks the Red Sea and Arabian Gulf in which 27 percent of world trade passes through.
The total Saudi investment in America is $800 billion.
In China to date we’ve invested less than $100 billion.
But it seems that things are growing very fast there.
The American companies have a huge concentration in Saudi Arabia. We have more than 300,000 Americans in Saudi Arabia, some of them Saudi-American, living in Saudi Arabia, and it’s growing every day.
So the interest is obvious. Whether you want to win in Saudi Arabia or lose it in Saudi Arabia, is up to you.
On alternative methods of governance
…There’s a lot of ideas that are attractive. Democracy is attractive, constitutional monarchy is attractive. But it depends on where, and how, and what the background is.
So democracy in America is interesting. It paved the way for the largest GDP on the planet, it made a great country, it provided a lot of great things for the whole world.
But it was founded and designed based on the situation that you had, from getting the British out, to uniting America.
So you design your political system, your economical beliefs and your social beliefs based on a way that fits you the best, and then you evolve.
If you look at America 100 years ago, for example, some social beliefs then were ridiculous! Even for us in Saudi Arabia, we look at it as ridiculous. but it evolved.
But Saudi Arabia is not an absolute monarchy, in the sense that His Majesty cannot wake up tomorrow and do whatever he wants.
There is a rightful way of running this country, which is the Constitution that states clearly that there are three branches of power.
The executive, which is led by His Majesty as the prime minister. But the two others are not led by him, but are appointed by him. There are institutions and processes and procedures.
Here’s an example about how you make a decision. We wanted to allow women to drive in 2015. But we couldn’t do it until 2017.
So that shows you that we worked by the book, by the Constitution, in front of the people.
If we run the country randomly, like a tent, that means the whole economy is going to collapse, that means no one is going to invest in Saudi Arabia, that even Saudis are not going to believe in us. We can’t just run it randomly.
On royalty
In Saudi Arabia, we don’t have blue blood. Our way as a royal family, it’s to serve the people. We are part of the people.
For example, my mother is not from a royal family. She’s from a tribal family, from Ajman, from Yam, almost 1 million people in Saudi Arabia.
And if you look at the royal family, we have marriages with non-royals, and we are part of them. And we live and are raised here, and we are part of the Arabian Peninsula.
And we’ve been ruling towns since history has been written, as Banu Hanifa, even before even Islam.
And we established the first Dir’iyya, unknown when, and then established the second Dir’iyya 600 years ago, and then we established Saudi Arabia 300 years ago.
So we are part of the people. So no royal has a special right that he can practice against the people.
If he crosses a red line, he’s going to be punished like any person in Saudi Arabia.
If you commit a crime, you’re going to be punished and face the law as a person in Saudi Arabia.
You’re from the royal family. It’s a title that you have to respect. And that’s it.
On the Ritz-Carlton incident
…[I]t wasn’t arresting people, what happened in the Ritz-Carlton was about giving them two options.
One, we’re going to treat you totally by the law. So, the public prosecution went to prepare the list of charges.
And the other option given to people was to ask them if they wanted the negotiation path. So almost 95 percent chose the negotiation path.
So up to that part they’re not criminals, we cannot put them in jail. They agreed to stay in the Ritz-Carlton to negotiate, to close the negotiation.
And I believe that almost 90 percent of the negotiations have been closed.
The rest, the ones who refused to negotiate, they turned to public prosecution based on Saudi law.
And a good percentage have been shown to be innocent people, either through negotiation, or in the courts.
…Rivals don’t exist in the first place to have a need to eliminate them by putting them in the Ritz-Carlton.
How can you eliminate people who don’t have any power to begin with?
It’s purely trying to stop a huge problem in Saudi Arabia: that for each budget, a very big percentage goes to corrupt people.
We cannot have the 5.6 percent non-oil GDP growth, we cannot have 50 percent raising of foreign investment in Saudi Arabia [in] 2021 if corruption continued, I can’t have qualified ministers and qualified key people working in the government, fighting day or night, working 24 hours, if they don’t believe it’s a rightful, true path that they are going on.
That will never happen if there’s corruption in Saudi Arabia.
…One of King Salman’s requests at the beginning of 2015 was, “Get rid of corruption.”
The government started collecting and preparing the files from 2015 to 2017, and to discuss the best course of action. And then the action was taken by His Majesty.
On GCC and the ‘family fight’
Definitely. It was a fight between brothers. And, you know, definitely they’re going to move on. And definitely, we’re going to be best, best friends.
GCC countries have the same political systems. We have the same political view 90 percent of the time, let’s say.
We have the same security dangers, we have the same economic challenges and opportunities. We have the same society and social fabric.
So we are like one nation, all of us as GCC countries, and that’s what pushed us to establish GCC and that’s what pushes us to work together — because working together is going to assure our security, is going to assure that our economic plan is going to succeed, and going to show that our political agenda can also succeed. Definitely, there’s a few differences.
And our role is to strengthen the interests and work out the differences. And that’s what’s been happening through the whole story of these two countries.
…Today we have unbelievable, amazing relations with Qatar.
Sheikh Tamimi’s an amazing person, an amazing leader. Same goes for the other GCC leaders.
Our aim and focus is on how to build a great future. we are very, very close. And it’s like, we are better than ever in history.
On Iran
They are neighbors. Neighbors forever. We cannot get rid of them, and they can’t get rid of us.
So it’s better for both of us to work it out and to look for ways in which we can coexist.
And we had a four-rounds of negotiation. We heard statements from Iranian leaders which we welcome in Saudi Arabia. And we are going to continue through the details of the negotiation.
Hopefully, we can reach a position that’s good for both countries and is going to create a brighter future for this country and Iran.
…I believe any country around the world that has a nuclear bomb — that’s dangerous, regardless if it’s Iran or any other country.
So we don’t want to see that. And also, we don’t want to see a weak nuclear deal, because that’s going to end up with the same conclusion.
On ties with Israel
Well, the agreement between the GCC countries states that no GCC country will take any action — political, security, economic action — that harms other GCC countries. And all GCC countries have committed to this.
Regardless of that, each country has independence to do whatever they want, based on their views, and they have a total right to do whatever they think that’s useful for UAE.
For us, we hope that the conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians is solved.
We don’t look at Israel as an enemy, we look to them as a potential ally, with many interests that we can pursue together. But we have to solve some issues before we get to that.
On opinions
I definitely like arguing. And also I like to go to work.
I believe each minister in the cabinet, each advisor of the Royal Court, are very capable people. I’m very lucky to have them.
I’ve been very lucky to bring them on in the past few years. They have amazing brains, amazing thoughts.
They have the passion of what they believe in, regardless of which sector. They push very hard to make things happen.
And they argue very hard. And then at the end of the day, you know, we take the actions based on the laws of Saudi Arabia, that will lead to the interest of the country.
For example, actions in Saudi Arabia in the executive branch are taken by a vote among the cabinet.
It’s not the king or the crown prince saying “We’ve got to do that.” By the procedures, His Majesty and I, we cannot vote first.
We have to be the last two people who vote so we don’t influence the thoughts or the votes of the ministers.
And many ministers vote against my will. They are there and still doing a lot of great things. And that’s what you need in any institution, you know, company or country.
On leisure and entertainment
You know, on the weekend I don’t try to engage. I used to, you know, from 2009 till early 2018, I barely took a weekend off. If I took one weekend in two months, that would mean I’m lucky. I gained a lot of weight. It was tough.
But since 2018, I started to take weekend vacations. When everything was established — good people, good governments etc, etc, etc — plans were there and we had just normal daily work.
So on the weekends, vacations, I tried to switch off. Without that I was going to collapse.
And workdays — I work all day. I spend 10, maximum 20 minutes on social media every day.
…I look through it all — Twitter, Instagram, you name it, all of it. So I just want to be sure that my media team knows that I’m searching myself.
I read Apple News. It’s amazing, bringing all these newspapers on one application. I love it. So that’s one of the things that I read.
A few newspapers in Saudi Arabia, global newspapers. So on social media, I spend let’s say 20 minutes and other media I spend like half an hour.
Mainly when I eat breakfast with my family. TV’s on, iPad’s on, breakfast is on also.
And I just do both or three things at the same time with the family. Reading the news, watching.
…Well, you know, when I watch movies or series I try to see something outside my world. For example, House of Cards is not good for me.
…When you watch it, it’s like, you know, you start to think about work.
So for me, it’s like Foundation is a good thing to watch. Foundation, it’s a new series. It’s unbelievable. Amazing. Game of Thrones, for example. It’s great.
…So there are many interesting characters [in Game of Thrones], let’s say. Very interesting characters. So that’s what makes a really good, interesting story, interesting argument, interesting characters. It’s amazing.
But what I’d like to watch is something outside this world. Fantasy, sci fi, superhero, animation, whatever. But something. Marvel or Japanese animation or whatever. So it’s like, just get me out. So I do that mostly half an hour a day before I sleep.
On the weekends, I like to do sports. Actually I do one day cardio, like one and a half hours.
I don’t like to do it in the gym. It’s horrible. So I tried to do it by playing a game. Basketball is my thing for this.
For me, I play basketball just for one reason: soccer, you could get injured. And if you get injured you could stop exercising for three or four months. So I don’t want to get in that.
Basketball is safe, so you can move a lot. for a good amount of time while also playing a game, and enjoying your time, so that’s really good.
…Well, I don’t like the new Arab music. Some of it is good. But mainly the old music is better. Also, I like to listen to national music from different countries.
On opening up the entertainment sector
Well, it’s part of the quality of life, you know. So when we’re trying to convince talent to come to Saudi Arabia, when we try to keep talent, Saudi talent, in Saudi Arabia, when we tried to keep Saudi investors in Saudi Arabia, when we try to convince foreign investors, when we try to reach 100 million tourists in 2030 — which we jumped from 6 million tourists in 2016, to almost 17.5 million tourists in 2019 — you have to provide them with all software and hardware.
Software, in as in events — sport or culture, music, or whatever it is. And hardware, as in projects like hotels, theme parks, etc.
So you have to bring the best of the best to be sure that we reach the tourism target, the sports target, the cultural target.
We need to have all of that present, to help achieve 10-15 percent of the Saudi GDP in 2030.
… [Religious leaders protest against music] and we argue back. So again, we go back to this Islamic teachings.
So the music, it’s an arguable thing in Islam. It’s not something that is agreed on among the Muslims, and they know that.
If it is agreed on among the Muslims, we have a rule among the Prophet’s teachings that say that necessities can remove some of the restrictions.